Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you want to see more of your favorite nurse? ;-)

The Daily Show may be the only sane viewing option during this week's festivities. Nikki and Paris Bush are making the rounds, partying like it's 1999 while Daddy War Bucks works overtime making Prince's song come true, however belatedly.

I am middle of the road in politics, but I find the Bush bashing a little hateful lately. Both sides do not have a great man to stand behind, so my pick this year is a tough one.

Did you hear Tim Russert say to Katie Couric that if Michael Moore is the face of the Democratic Party, then they're in a lot of trouble? If you didn't, I thought you should hear that. Pick a better source for your Dem. news, Mike!

Um, but you're not finding the outright lies being spread about John Kerry "a little hateful"?

Moore for your news??!!
Just one more telling me that because I am a woman I need to vote for Kerry. I am sorry but my finances, job prospects and life in general is so much better now than it was when Clinton was in office. Humm but I am supposed to vote for Kerry who has said that he is going to tax me more and most likely elimiate my job?! Yea right!

Frank if those are "lies" then why doesn't Kerry elease his war records. The author of the book has heard the threats of being sued, and is begging for Kerry to sue him. He has 60 witnesses to Kerry's 3. I say that is overwhelming evdience in the author's favor, but I would like to look at all the proof. If Kerry doesn't authorize release of his military records it begs the question, "What is he hiding." Bush never hid his records why is Kerry???

Hey, politics! woohoo! After this, you all will have some idea about what mine are...;-) But please understand, none of what I am going to say is personal folks. Friends of MRW are friends of mine! But I am going to lay some real facts down now. I'm trying to spread some of the information I have learned. If you want to discuss in detail, you know how to reach me!

First Brad, I think you have it backwards. Kerry's war record has been public knowledge for 35 years. Bush is the one who is hinding his. 6 months of Bush's reservist duty is totally unaccounted for. It cost US taxpayers $250K (in 1968 dollars) to train reservist pilots. Don't you think we have the right to know Where Was George? Also, see johnkerry.com Fact Check for the full disclosure of Kerry's record. The Swifites are completely refuted there as well.

I find it utterely disgusting how Bush backers are smearing Kerry's service record. At the RNC, they are wearing purple heart bandaids; it doesn't get much more crass than that. Bush evaded the draft and not because he was philosophically opposed to the war. The Texas Lt. Governor at the time is now on record stating he helped W avoid the draft, by getting him into the air reserve.

Cristy, I'm sorry you believe you will be taxed disproportionally under Kerry. But really, that's more old school republican rhetoric, than an honest analysis of the current administration's fiscal stewardship. Many traditional (fiscally conservative) conservatives are baffled by what Bush is doing. He has run up an unprecedented (no one, neither Dem or Repub, has ever spent so much so fast) deficit. Yet, under the Bush tax plan, 1/3 of the 1.7 trillion in tax cuts benefits only the top 1% of wealthiest Americans. The Bush deficit is going to be paid, whether we like it or not. So, it sure looks to me like you and I are going to foot that bill. How is Bush helping you there?

I'm glad, but surprised, you say you're better off in the job market now than under Clinton. I think it's not unfair to state that most Americans would think the opposite. Since W took office, 1.2 million more people in America have lost their jobs, bringing the total to 8.2 million.

The number of Americans living below the poverty line has increased by 4.3 million to 35.9 million - 12.9 million of them children.

The number of Americans with no health insurance has increased by 5.8 million - with 1.4 million losing their insurance in 2003. The total now stands at 45 million.

Forty percent of the 3.5 million people who were homeless at some point last year were families with children, as were 40 percent of those seeking emergency food assistance.

Median household income has fallen more than $1,500 in inflation-adjusted terms in the last three years, and the wages of most workers are now falling behind inflation.

Average tuition for college has risen by 34 percent, while 37 percent of fourth graders read at a level considered "below basic."

Anyone still reading?

Anyone still want more reasons not to vote W back in?

Bush has failed to capture Osama Bin Laden.
He lost the worlds' respect for the US, by engaging in a unilateral preemptive war and for not holding anyone in his cabinet accountable for the horrors of Abu Ghraib. Bush has NEVER attended a single funeral or memorial service for any of the 975 soldiers killed in Iraq. He pulled the US out of the Kyoto agreement on global warming, gutted the Clean Air Act, initiated the rollback of more than 200 environmental regulations, backed a constitutional amendment to outlaw gay marriages, and refused to follow through on his promise to extend the assault weapons ban. He has grossly undefunded his 'no child left behind' plan, inhibited stem cell research, kept affordable perscription drug legislation from being enacted & stimied needed health care reform. Just wait for his announcement of 'ownership of your retirement.' These are buzz words for his program to emasculate social security & medicare.

The Bush record lacks compassion, is divisive and reckless. 4 years ago he said he be the exact opposite. He failed to live up to his promises from 4 years ago and doesn't deserve another 4.

Respectfully, deano

What he said...

Oh, and I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT JOHN KERRY'S WAR RECORD. It's been a matter of public record for 35 years. Those discrediting it have direct ties to the Bush campaign. Remember, the campaign's attorney resigned as a result. Kerry walks around with shrapnel in his leg from his tours of duty. Bush walks around with a couple of fillings he got from the National Guard. It's a non-issue. Move on...

I thought this line of questioning from Moore was pretty spot on. Ask yourself these same questions. He's not distorting anything. He's just outlining the difference between Dems and Republicans.

I asked one man who told me he was a "proud Republican," "Do you think we need strong laws to protect our air and water?"

"Well, sure," he said. "Who doesn't?"

I asked whether women should have equal rights, including the same pay as men.

"Absolutely," he replied.

"Would you discriminate against someone because he or she is gay?"

"Um, no." The pause - I get that a lot when I ask this question - is usually because the average good-hearted person instantly thinks about a gay family member or friend.

I've often found that if I go down the list of "liberal" issues with people who say they're Republican, they are quite liberal and not in sync with the Republicans who run the country. Most don't want America to be the world's police officer and prefer peace to war. They applaud civil rights, believe all Americans should have health insurance and think assault weapons should be banned.

I'm not sure what you're referring to by JFK eliminating your job, Christy. Something with insurance reform?

We're a nation running in the wrong direction. Our domestic policies are regressive to the poor and our foreign affairs have turned the rest of the world vehemently against us. It's time for a change. Four more years of the status quo are four more years of residual wrong-headedness. I can't even imagine where we as a nation and our economy would be in 2008. The rich get richer, the environment becomes depleted, we're become more hated.

The Purple Heart Band-aids are the most disgusting display I've ever seen. The very thought makes my blood boil.

Just one more note about the Vietnam experiences of the two presidential candidates: Kerry's crew and war buddies (some of whom are on record as not supporting his political positions) all back up Kerry's version of events 100%.

And Bush's military buddies... well, no-one seems to be able to find them...

Now this is a real talk!! Look be careful when you sat hte rest of the world all that comes to mind is France. I can't think of one thing those cheese eating rifle dropping surrender monkeys have done for us lately. Britian is still with us, so is most of the pacific rim. We are facing a time in our history not thought of by anyone. We fight an enemy head on that is tougher then we have ever faced. Kerry people keep his records in the public eye only because he says he has a plan to fix the economy, but what is it? He has a way to fight the war, but what is it? I read his book online and it is full of double talk and circle logic. Most in politics can see this. Now Bush has done the same thing. He is in a looong job interview, and the question to him no is why should we hire you? He needs real answers. I don't stand behind Bush and his stand on gay weddings. I agree with Cheny it should be the states right. For the record I don't care if gay people want to get married. Thier happiness doesn't effect my morals. I think if it really makes them happy then do it. In Michigan if it ever came to a vote for us I would vote down any ban on this topic.
We have more trees here now then in history. Why else do you think we haveso many forest fires. Anyone who has watched Pen and Teller Bullshit will see tree hugging extremists are sprending half truths.
The democrats had a great man in Howard Dean. So what if he screamed. He had passion for this job. I respect far more then any other man out there. Even Bush.
I am not good at health cae that is Christy's field. I do know that the new home market is going up. Mortgage rates have dropped. I am busier then ever. Oh according to the Democraps the re-fi boom is over. So what the new home market is exploding. I know this for a fact because I am living right in the middle of it.
I know for a fact that drug companies give away more free drugs to those who can't afford it. They have been doing this for years. Mainstream media doesn't talk about it, because that is good news. Not the sad heartstring stiry of an old lady opening cat food so she can eat. That is the real bullshit. Go to the drug companies websites and the proof is thier.
We have foacotires opening up here. We also have some closing. We have had a wash out in the job market. Less poeple here are worried about thier jobs with Bush in the White House. So those are some real facts as well. the proof is out thier. Remember I am independent I culd vote either way, but until Kerry gets off his high horse and tell us some real facts my choice is clear.

I do not know any one, ANY ONE, Who is worse off now than they were 4 years ago!!!
Yes I do think that the health care system does need reform but I do not think that having the goverment take over is the way to solve the problem. Take a real close look at how they have handled Medicare and Medicaid!! I would argue that Medicare and Medicaid are causing a big chunk of the problems now! Medicare and Medicaid have set dollar limits that they pay for services. They then don't allow the Hospitals or Doctors to bill the patient for more than just a very small amount of the total charge. What end's up happening is that the hosptials have to charge more to every one to make up the loss. I am sure this is not popluar but as far as I am conserned if you don't have health insurance and that is a problem for you then you need to get some. That may mean geting a different job, that may mean purchasing coverage on your own. I work for a Third Party Administrator so Insurance is a big thing. Yet this year they started a new kind of plan with a $3000 family deductable. Now they did give us the first $1500 paid at 100% but that is for the whole family then we pay the next $3000 before the plan starts at 80% or 70% depending on the service. So every one was a little upset, Yet very few people bothered to see if they could get better coverage on the open market. I did and was ready to purchase my own coverage (for about the same cost) when the powers that be decided that they would make the deductable $1500 per family not $3000. So I decided to stay with that plan as it was then the same as what I could buy on my own. The problem with the heath care system is that people are not willing to question the doctors. They will spend all day shopping for a new DVD player to save ten bucks but they will not get a second opintion before having the $5,000 MRI. Maybe it is just me but I think the consumer needs to be informed, and yes they need to price shop the health care. If there was competative pressure in the market place for health care then the cost would go down.
As far as taxes are conserned, Bush gave me a tax cut. I did look at what Kerry was saying and yes by the numbers that he has put out I would be taxed more if he passed the legislation that he wants.
I would prefer that the goverment would stay out of my life! I do not want them in charge of my health care! I do not want there crapy retirement program (I could make so much better return on the money that I am forced to put in to Social Security)!
I am sure you all think that I am stuped for voting for Bush but to be honest I am better off now than I have ever been. I think Bush is more personable than Kerry. I think that the leader of this country should pray for guidance, frankly I am frightened by the idea that a president who would not! Yes, I am aware that my background has to do with how I will vote. I happen to think that your backgound should have somthing to do with the way you vote. In my family we have a teacher, she did not vote for Bush last time. Many other members of my family could not understand why (this is why we no longer speak about politics at family gatherings!!). I do. To her Bush was a threat to her job. To me Kerry is a threat to my job and to my finances. Yes I am aware that you feel strongly about Kerry. Fine. Isn't this what America is supposed to be about?

"I do not know any one, ANY ONE, Who is worse off now than they were 4 years ago!!!"

Sorry. I can't even read past that sentence. YOU are worse off than you were four years ago in terms of real dollars. It's an economic fact. The unemployment statistics then are what exactly? Lies? I'm glad that you think you and yours are in fine shape but most people can't make such a statement. Heck, two of my regular readers became highly educated unemployed folks in the last year.

Go back up there and read Dean's numbers. That's the facts.

By the way to back up what Christy said. I am put under a gag order. I amn reminded of this ever time we go to a family function. If I mention the "P" word my "P" will end up in her purse.

Look dude I live in a home that is worth THREE times the amount of my first home. My debtr load is a third less then it was four years ago. Our income has more then doubled. I am putting peolple in to homes that four years ago couldn't even think about this. So I don't buy the tight market bullshit. I don't know anyone who is worst off. I meet people everyday. I know two bankruptcy att. that are waiting for Kerry to get elected so thier business will take off agian. Oh our advertising dollar for our coampany is ZERO! If the "market" was so tight I would be out of business.
Christy says,"I just don't anyone who is worst off."
I don't need to read the numbers I live in it everyday. My numbers are real I can fax themn out to any one if they would like. Home prices are higher this year then last year. Numbers are up, rates are droping. These are real numbers. I don't need the spin. I have the facts every month.

Good for you, Brad. Good for you. You're doing swell. Surely the rest of the country must be too. It's all lies and "spin." Gotcha.

I am not saying they are lying. That would imply they are saying things with maice and intent to spread untruths. I am just saying they are not accurate. Some are even grossly blown up. Not to say the Repub do not do the same thing. Hell they can't even afford a good VCR for a tribute on Reagan. All I can say to them is fix the tracking idiots.

"I do not know any one, ANY ONE, Who is worse off now than they were 4 years ago!!!"

Oh, I can think of 978, and that's just the Americans.* Counting the Iraqis almost wouldn't be fair. So we just don't count them. Put another way, they don't count.

Dude, you ought to get out more.

*As of 1:22 a.m. Central, Sept 2, 2004. See http://icasualties.org/oif/.

First off I am talking about people I acutally know NOT the world in general. I can only make decisions based on what I personally know to be true.

Second- Those fine americans who died trying to bring the freedoms that we enjoy here to those in Iraq knew what the cost could be when they enlisted. They were not drafted.

Third- As I do beleve in God and Heaven I could argue that they are in a better place now! I don't look forward to dealth but I also do not fear it as my lord has made a place for me, free from the pain and injustices of this world.

The president may have some effect on the economy, but that effect is incredibly hard to measure -- there are a lot of different factors at work (business cycles, etc.). Any effect will have to be measured (and debated) years from now.

By the way, if you haven't been watching the Republican convention, you've missed out on a VERY competent and convincing show. They know what to say, know how to push the right buttons, know what issues to hit. A lot of what they say amounts to lies, but the fact is that the Dems have done an awful job of taking their case to the American public. Four years ago, they had the chance to win the White House by following in the footsteps of an incredibly popular president -- they failed. Now, they have the chance to remove from power a guy who is (in my opinion) the worst president I've ever seen (and that includes Carter). They've had four years to plan and strategize about how to defeat Bush, and as of right now, they are failing miserably. I know nothing about what Kerry would do differently, I know nothing about what Kerry did in the Senate, I know nothing about Kerry's plans for the future of this country. All I know is that the guy was in Vietnam and isn't George W. Bush -- that's not much of a platform, and if things continue as they have been, the Democrats are going to lose big.

A once gifted comedian, once said:

"Mambo dogfish in the bannana patch!"

I'm sure we can all agree that you know I know what I'm saying. Right? I knew you did, er, could. #~>

I would argue that running up record levels of national debt to support a conflict that the majority of Americans don't support has had a massive impact on the economy. Generally, yes, I agree that presidential impact on the economy is tough to gauge as it's a very cyclical animal with long lead times.

Sadly, I have to agree with every single statement re: the Dems.

Deano--

If I didn't have a 15 month old son to consider, I'd move to massachusetts with you in a heartbeat, if you know what i mean. Do I have permission to copy that post above into a mass email?

Yours forever,

JW

I suppose Mike declared this thread dead, but when did that ever stop me?

>First off I am talking about people I acutally
>know NOT the world in general. I can only
>make decisions based on what I personally
>know to be true.

This is the Republican way, of course: Other people's reality is invalid, especially if it's an unpleasant reality. Your philosophy is much like Bush's, in which he has no inclination to think beyond the narrow set of experiences to which he's consciously limited himself. Imagine being a millionaire's son who barely traveled abroad before becoming president! A lack of exposure to other people's experiences leads directly to this tragic inclination to think that all would be right with the world if we could only make all the world exactly like us.

Bush often gets compared to Reagan, which is apt. They were both simpletons who gave permission for vast numbers of people to think just as simplistically.

>Second- Those fine americans who died

(That's known as lip service, btw.)

>trying to bring the freedoms that we enjoy
>here to those in Iraq knew what the cost
>could be when they enlisted. They were not
>drafted.

Point of order: It's a de facto draft when people who enlisted are prevented from leaving service, as is now the case. I won't even bother noting that non-affluent kids enlist because they don't have the option of attending Yale as legacies. Other than these two minor quibbles, the entire process by which these kids are dying is completely fair, as you say. Which, even if it were true, would in no way excuse what's going on in Iraq.

>Third- As I do beleve in God and Heaven I
>could argue that they are in a better place
>now! I don't look forward to dealth but I
>also do not fear it as my lord has made a
>place for me, free from the pain and
>injustices of this world.

This puts all your earlier comments in a completely different light. (Not that the previous light flattered them much either, mind you.) It was Bin Laden's right-hand man who said: "There are thousands of the Islamic nation's youths who are eager to die just as the Americans are eager to live." I wonder if you think America is automatically better off having a "godly man" in the White House. What would Jesus do with the power to wage war? Do you think we'd be better off with an actual Man of God as president? Robertson? Falwell?

I think these Bushies need to learn how to use a spellcheck. Maybe take a grammar class.

(That's what we call a "cheap shot.")

Here's another one: The Bush girls are WHORES. And I'm including Laura.

My unmitigated rage after reading the classic one-liner "I do not know any one, ANY ONE, Who is worse off now than they were 4 years ago!!!" is now abated. Thanks.

Okay Matt and Vernam,
You now offiacaly have a problem with ME!!! My wife who both have never met has brought down to base rage and tears. MIke has seen a little taste of my anger, btu believe me when you both have taken what she has said and twisted them them around. Calling the Bush girls whores is like calling my wife a whore. I swear by the God I PRAY to if I find you, you will be sorry beyond any words that you PISSED ME OFF!!! You have taken a spirited debate and made it into something hateful. Mike this not against you, but some people took this too far.

>Okay Matt and Vernam,
>You now offiacaly have a problem with ME!!!

Wait a minute, Sparky. While I certainly understand (if not condone) threats against Matt under almost any circumstances, all I did was ask some honest questions about the separation of church and state.

If you thought this debate was friendly before the last two posts, you just weren't paying attention.

So if you are interested in "spirited debate" -- that was a good pun, however unintentional -- why not just answer the question of whether you think it's a good idea or a bad one to have a religious figure running our country? Regarding your threats, I'm going to turn the other cheek, as the saying goes.

Vernam,
When you take mean spirited attacks at my wife and her beliefs you do have a problem with me. You don't know her and you certainly are not in her league. She is more then a kind person. What you said hurt her. As her husband I can't do much, but do the only thing I know how to do. I am not making threats only stating facts. I did not intend any pun. Maybe you get a kick out making fun of people. I just think your an ass for doing so.

Where's Rodney King when you need him?

I don't recall calling your wife a whore. I'm sure she's a fine woman.

If she's that upset about a cheap shot at three very public figures, maybe you both need to take a step back from the universe at large and revisit a subject I like to call "reality."

P.S. I'm sure your "God" appreciates that you'll be praying to him for the opportunity to do violence unto me. My God tends to think violence is, um, pretty crappy.

P.P.S. Maybe your wife should be crying because our president has condemned almost 1000 of our fellow Americans to die in an unjust war. Or even just because our president is condoning by silence the discrediting of a Vietnam war hero, something that not only uglies the political climate beyond the telling, but that spits in the face of a sacrifice made in service to the very country he claims to lead.

These things make me want to cry, that's for damn sure.