I recently read a thoughtful essay about the racism/civil war issue. The points made were pretty interesting. I'd like to know what you think of them:

The Civil War was not about slavery as so many claim. Because:

1. Only some small percentage (can't remember, but it was around 10%) of the people who fought actually owned slaves. Why would they fight and die for something from which they didn't benefit? (Something that, in fact, took away paid labor jobs that they could have had?)

2. Instead it was about the division of resources between the South & North. The South had raw materials; the North was industrial. The South wanted to be able to sell to the highest bidder, often countries across the pond. However, the North depended on Southern goods and couldn't afford to lose them to those countries so they imposed heavy export tariffs. The South was forced to sell exclusively to the North. I believe the argument went even further to explain that by import tariffs, the South was also forced to purchase the finished products from the North.

c. For the most part, blacks were not treated any more kindly in the North. Eventually, all the Northern states outlawed slavery. But you can subjugate a people without actually making them slaves.

I remember all of this being discussed in history class, but you may argue that since I was educated in the South, I didn't receive an accurate version of history.

Can it be the case that people in our time have latched on to the one very obvious social problem and made it play a larger role in the war than it did?

I believe it is possible that those symbols didn't stand solely for racism at the time. I do admit, however, that people's perception of them have changed over time so that they now are symbols of hatred and racism.

Take all of this with a grain of salt because I personally abhor racism of all kinds. I do not get involved with any type of politics. I do, however, like history and appreciate an accurate understanding of it.

OK, blast away...

No blasting, but I think most agree the fundamental reason for the war was the Southern states believe that the only way to maintain their way of life was to secede from the union. The federal government disagreed.

The power base of the south, being primarily agricultural in nature, felt slavery was an economic necessity. There were other reasons involved in the seccessionist movement too, including the broader subject of states rights versus a strong federal government. There was also a disagreement on how the new western territories should evolve - free, versus slave, states. Investments in western land, by both Northern and Southern landowners, made the issue a point of contention.

Although only a minority of people in the south owned plantations and slaves, the plantation system was the primary economic engine in the south. Slavery was a significant aspect of maintaining that economic power. Acts like the Missouri Compromise, which legislated which states were free and which were slave states, shows that slavery was a issue leading up to the war.

Let's never forget what slavery is: the legal definition of people as property. Racism existed in the North - and still does. But the morality of ownership of people takes things to an extreme. Although the 'stars and bars' might not stand exclusively for the right to be racist, slavery and secession are inextricably tied to the cause. Both of which are highly unAmerican.

Now if Northern California opts to vote for secession, I might rethink that...;-)

I have tough time with this issue. My heritage takes a whole different viewpoint. Mike knows I am Indian. So both flags histories our soaked in blood. We love to focus on the issue of slavery has our big black eye. Yes the Civil War was more about state vs. federal government right then slavery.(I am small Civil War buff.) My people lived on this land in peace. We accepted the Eurpeons with open arms. We helped the pilgrams survive the first winter. We helped fight against the British in the fight for this countries freedom. Now for the payday we got was to be pushed back to the west. U.S. wanted more land so we got pushed back further, and further, and further. Until we got the most useless piece of land. We starved, fought to be considered citzens of this country. While women in the early 1900's were fighting to vote. We were tought of has savages. An oddity to be studied not looked upon as equals. While the south was winning the war aginst segreagation. In the Southwest we were not allowed off the resveration to go to school. We make jokes like "that guy is driving like a drunken indian." I have too many casino to last me a lifetime. It is okay for people to make jokes about indians and we all laugh. When someone like Cedric the entertainer has a role that is supposed to make fun of Rosa Parks. Then stand back lets boycott the movie and any show he is in. Is there inequality in America? Yes, and the you guess which race holds the power right now.

Good point, Brad. Every human government is smeared with the blood of some other people. No government is blameless. Even among the Indians, there were tribes that were aggressive and war-mad.

And to reiterate, I believe that slavery is absolutely detestable, as are all forms of racism.

I think it's people's values and opinions that turn an object like a flag into a "racist" symbol.

For example, in the 80s in jolly ol' England, the confederate flag was more of a punk icon, a "rebel" flag, and not a symbol of hate, because it wasn't a part of their history. As a punk-loving anglophile teenager, I didn't really understand what was so racist about the confederate flag until years later.

To me, the compromise "stars and bars" Georgia flag seems to be more of a nod to southern heritage than to racism, simply because it's more obscure and people don't view it as a symbol of hate. Lets face it, Slavery and racism are a part of southern heritage, like it or not. But you know what, I'm not a southerner, and I'm not a minority, so my opinion on the flag shouldn't mean squat.

I'll join this debate when I have time to actually formulate my thoughts.

However, I think that "Southern Heritage" is too often just a coliqualism for racism. Do you hear people talking about "Midwestern Heritage?" How about "Michigan Pride?" Nope. The South is the only part of our nation that wants to have its own historical tradition and identity and that tradition isn't one of acceptance.

Now, I sleep...

And yes, spelling bee champions, I know I spelled "colloquialism" wrong...

I glad you had more guts then me to try and "colloquialism." You know my spelling.

It has been brought to the management's attention that not only did I spell "colloquialism" incorrectly but used the word in a sketchy context. Colloquialism refers to a regional variation in dialect or language which, I argue, could have been what I was trying to say. However, the appropriate word in that context (and the one I surely meant to use) would have been "euphemism." Please substitute the word if you're playing at home.

I gots awl kinz o' smartz

But try to think about it this way: The "southern" way of life is scoffed at by the rest of America. And, once again, I'm not talking about racism here, I'm talking about the lifestyle that people who consider themselves "Southerners" really try to live: A slower, laid back pace, living "off the land", following very strong religious values (for God's sake, they don't even play High School sports here on Sundays), and generally conservative views. "America" generally scoffs at the South for having all of those ideals.

Southerners hate "Yankees" like us, not because of the Civil War, but because we look down on their way of life. I think the concept of preserving the "Southern way of life" is primarily a noble one, held by a group of people who think that dashing off to Starbucks, screaming at people on their hand-held headsets with enormous veins bulging out of their foreheads because of their high-stress lifestyles is in some way wrong.

The problem is, Slavery is inseparable from Southern history. People will always look at the Confederacy as "Slave Country" because that's what most of us were taught in the schools, by very well-meaning teachers and textbook authors who were trying to subtly tell us that racism is wrong, that slavery is bad, and that's why we had to have a horrible war. As a result, people will always look at a symbol of the confederacy as a symbol of racism.